Aciditivity

[the_gneech]

There's a guy I know in the offline world (I'm going to call him Patrick), who is blessed with wit and natural charm, and who is a genuinely likeable guy -- most of the time. However, he has a characteristic that drives me nuts, which is his negativity.

Patrick's behavior is often cynical, pessimistic, depressive, often mean-spirited, and caustic. When he behaves this way, I can't stand to be in his presence. He mocks others, he mocks me, he mocks himself -- and not just friendly ribbing, mind you, but mean remarks, that are unworthy of anybody.

He's not a bad person, by any stretch. In fact, he's quite a good person, on both a personal level, helping out people in need, and in terms of working to better his community (he's very active in the writing community around here and organizes a lot of events) and generally make the world a better place. But he still has this nasty streak, which I can't tell if he realizes is nasty, or if he thinks "is all in fun." Patrick's idea of fun is computer games that involve inflicting pain as viciously as possible. His idea of the perfect game would probably involve torturing the Care Bears to death or something. As if that joke hasn't been run into the ground in the past ten years and just plain gotten old, geeze Louise!

Of course, if I commented on it, he'd just respond with a caustic comment. "Must be why nobody likes me," or some such thing. My instinctive response is to say, "Of course people like you! I like you myself, when you aren't acting this way." But I've responded that way time and again to his self-deprecation, to no avail. One of these times, I'm going to get fed up and respond with, "Yeah, maybe you're right."

Which of course will just feed the negative self-image he has which causes this poisonous behavior, and reinforce the cycle. It doesn't seem to matter how many positive comments, friendly gestures, and goodwill I extend toward him; all he seems to see is bad things about himself and the world around him.

I suppose I should just resign myself to the fact that he's like that and avoid him. I don't want to write him off -- I really wish I could somehow get him to lighten up a bit instead. Being pleasant doesn't have to mean being bland ... being nice doesn't have to mean being saccharine ... being optimistic doesn't have to mean being patronizing or stupid. I like to think of myself as a fairly charming, intelligent, and witty guy, but I try to never be nasty, rude, mean, or coarse, and I've reached the point where I have little patience for those who are.

What I would prescribe for this guy, if I thought he would listen to me and not just mock what I had to say, would be a six month abstinence on anything mean. He would neither engage in, nor remain in the presence of people who were:

• Bitching about stuff
  
• Engaging in nasty gossip, whether accurate or not
  
• Laughing at somebody in real pain
  
• Play any games where death, particularly gruesome death, is played for laughs
  
• Holding grudges against people
  
• Watching TV shows where cruelty or bathroom humor is the primary purpose (e.g., South Park)
  

To fill the immense void that this would premusably leave in his life, he would instead:

• Listen to beautiful music
  
• Read authors such as P.G. Wodehouse
  
• Play games where puzzle-solving and character interaction are vital to moving the plot forward -- I would particularly recommend things like Escape From Monkey Island, which has an edge, but isn't vicious
  
• Say only good things about anybody, including himself -- even when asked a direct question, like "Isn't your boss a butthead?" (To this, he would respond with something like, "We don't see eye to eye on some things, maybe, but I don't think it's appropriate to call him names.")
  

I pick six months, because if it's a shorter amount of time, he would just lapse back into his previous habits. It takes at least that long for somebody to make a real change in their behavior, if the change is going to happen. And if it isn't going to happen, well, then his true core personality is just a nasty, bitter jerk, and I've got no reason to waste any more attention on him.

Alas, there isn't any way to tell him this without his personality deflector shields going up, and it's not really my place to go around telling people how to live their lives anyway. It just irritates me to be around somebody who is so close to being someone I'd really like to have as a close friend, only to suddenly have them walk all up and down my spine with a vicious offhand comment.

Oh well. Life is what it is, not what I would wish it to be. Patrick probably thinks I'm a smarmy goodie-goodie anyhow. :P

-The Gneech, smarmy goodie-goodie

Comments

[jamesbarrett.livejournal.com]

You smarmy goodie-goodie. ;) I am so glad you were not talking about me. Considering I have no idea who you're talking about, I'll just leave this at that. I only really came here to call you a smarmy goodie-goodie cause I thought it would be fun. heehee. -Friski

[lowen-kind.livejournal.com]

Gneech, you are a "smarmy goodie-goodie" that I'm pleased to call a "Friend!"

Through you I've met many fine folk, some of which have given me hope and support when I've needed it. If you hadn't twisted my tail to log on to a.l.f., I don't want to think where I might be right now. I owe you a debt of graditude that I can only hope to repay someday.

So if you are a "smarmy goodie-goodie", it's fine by me, as I'll have you no other way. ;=3

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

All you need to do to repay me, is be happy and keep being a good friend. :) -TG

[unciaa.livejournal.com]

*hees and waves to LKCMSL*
You prolly don't remember me [hm, scratch probably], I met/talked to you briefly at AC2k [as Sichi, was hanging around Lomax at the time]. Just wanted to say hi. :)

=---------------------------------=
And back to Gneech...

Hm, and about Patrick; the description of the guy was painfully like my own, well, at least until you started listing the "Do"s and "Don't"s. I'm cynical and bitter, but mostly just about myself [think of it this way: if you have a negative opinion of a lot of your features, you try to improve on them, no?] or the state of the world at large [politics, nature conservation... But mostly politics, oy].
On the other hand, I tend to have an almost too positive an opinion about most others [see my cynical side kick in as I type this out *smirk*], the whole "all are good deep down, all can change" deal. And the Monkey Island series is one of my favorite collections of games ever, I've played and finished all of them multiple times. *grin*

I don't know, I latch to my cynical side because it's the only way I can deal with a lot of the stupidity that is in the world. If you can tell me of a more positive way to do that, I'm all ears. *g*

[nekomimikun.livejournal.com]

I like the way you are. He is just putting a label on it that he views as negative. I don't care.
I like you and I like you this way. =^_^=

Re:

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Aww! :) Thanks! -TG

[chipuni.livejournal.com]

Ouch.

If it's possible, spend little time with this gentleman. He can drag you down a lot more easily than you can lift him up. (As always, it's easier to destroy than it is to create.) It sounds like he's aiming to be a loser; let him reach his goal on his own. He sounds self-destructive.

There's a big difference between being critical and destructive. I mean -- I'm critical of the Bush Administration. He's self-destructive.

Good luck.

I **LIKE** Smarmy Goody Goodies!

[torakiyoshi.livejournal.com]

I keep them around in case they might rub off on me. Lord knows I need that help! (I am aware that I, too can be caustic. And I am unsure of how to target and change this, since I hang out with Smarmy Goody Goodies to no avail...)

BTW, I absolutely love P.G. Wodehouse. What a great author!

Did you ever see the Jeeves and Wuster series that Masterpiece Theater put out?

Hehe.

Jeeves: "I was sent by the company, sir. They told me you were in need of a valet."
Wuster: *gurgles and sways drunkenly*
Jeeves: Indeed, sir. *Moves around Wuster and cleans his flat in about three seconds.*

Re: I **LIKE** Smarmy Goody Goodies!

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Yup, I've seen most of the Masterpiece Theater J&W ... very good, I thought, although Hugh Laurie's potrayal of Bertie reminded me more of Lord Peter Whimsey from Dorothy Sayers' mystery novels. -TG

Re: I **LIKE** Smarmy Goody Goodies!

[torakiyoshi.livejournal.com]

I am not familiar. I'll have to look those up. :)

*Higs* Feeling better tonight? Well by time you read this: Feeling better this morning?

[level-head.livejournal.com]

There is something about a person like that, great potential with a large flaw, that makes you just want to "fix" the person, neh?

You've received advice to leave "Patrick" alone. I think you've already figured out what you're going to do -- obviously, you've known "Patrick" for a while, and because of circumstances, you may not find it easy to no longer be exposed to "Patrick" in your life.

If you decide to continue, or cannot help the exposure, all I can recommend is patience.

Let us know what happens! It may encourage those who would encourage others. ;)

===|==============/ Level Head

Yep.

[xydexx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can relate. I often find myself faced with the dilemma of feeling sorry for them and wanting to help, and wanting to avoid them because I know they'll just drag me down too.

Sometimes I think all they really need is a good night's sleep or something, because it's largely their own perspective that makes them create their own hell.

Your suggestion is an excellent one (hey, it even sounds like fun to me), but as you said, getting him to do it is the biggest obstacle.

Addendum

[xydexx.livejournal.com]

...getting him to do it is the biggest obstacle.

Small footnote to add to that, which others mentioned as well: Eventually, you have to decide whether you want to continue investing time trying to get him to do it, or just cut your losses and move on. You have your own life to live, after all.

I have had *two* friends much like Patrick:

[wabbitcalif.livejournal.com]

... fun to be around, charming and funny when they wanted to be; also back-stabbing, manipulative, and played each friend against the other.

I spent 15 and a half years trying to set a good example. Eventually, I'd realized that I was allowing myself to be drained by them.

So, I told them "Goodbye."
Yeah, they thought it was drastic too.
However:
I've improved my own energy levels, and realized that not everyone wants my help - as much as I'd like to give it to them.

*hugs* Looks like you are on the right track, Gneech - just set your limits, you'll be fine.

PS: like the others: I like smarmy goody-goodies too! They're usually the cuter ones, because they're more comfortable, open and relaxed!

[kelloggs2066.livejournal.com]

You're not a smarmy goodie-goodie.

You're a Pollyanna.

No, wait, that's me...

You know man, I'm afraid I gotta say it,
so you're going to have to forgive me for
comparing your real life to a comic strip, but...

This is exactly the sort of problem I'm trying to
portray right now in my strip:

An intelligent, helpful, charitable individual, who has a facet to his personality that is utterly and completely unforgivable.

It's never an easy situation, and I can't say that anyone can get a crystal clear picture of the situation, even from as well thought out an analysis as you've given. I'm not sure if you're looking for advice or sympathy, so I'll offer both.

I know the sort of thing you're going through very well. I wouldn't be able to write about it if I didn't. It's a tough spot. I'm sorry. :/

As for advice, I think you probably know your own mind and in your own heart probably know the best course of action that's right for you. So, maybe I can't give great advice, but I can offer some observations:

1) You are not responsible for his behavior.
From what you've written, it doesn't even sound like you have much of any influence over his behavior, nevermind responsibility for it. Intellectually, I think you realize this. Emotionally, is another story.

2) When a person is that down on himself, or this sort of behavior is as ingrained in his personality as you describe, he is ultimately the only person who can drag himself out of it. Assistance doesn't help. Change has to come from within. Attempts to assist him in changing himself are ultimately self defeating because the negativity he's putting out is being 'rewarded' by your being nice. He says "I suck" and you say "No you don't." If you withdraw your support for him, he'll eventually have to either find someone else to feed him 'rewards', pull himself up by his own bootstraps or perish.

You're concerned he might perish, no? As I said before, it's not an easy situation you're in. I'm sorry.

You might find a particular thread line in my forum interesting. Entitled "120 Seconds" in responce to last Friday's strip. If you have time to go through it, pay particular attention to the comments by Greyman.
http://pub68.ezboard.com/f21stcenturyfoxfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

Anyway, M'Friend, Take it easy.

Good luck,

Scott

Irony

[kelloggs2066.livejournal.com]

As soon as I hit "Submit" on that last message, I check my mail and find an e-mail asking about my strip from someone named "Patrick".

Yeep! ;)

Scott

[torakiyoshi.livejournal.com]

Sound "advice."

I, too, know people that self-deprecating. What do to? I am afriad, I also finally jus thad to say "goodbye." And this is after we made a commitment to help him stop being self-destructive (he spent a couple hours in the garage with the motor running).

The best thing you can do if you can stand to be around him is, like has been said, to stop feeding him thse rewards. In fact, let his self-deprecating statements fly by uncommented. Change the subject if you have to. :)

And come rant about it to us if you need to let it out. *Tiger-hugs da lion.*

[chastmastr.livejournal.com]

Very, very cool!

David
smarmy goody-goody

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Well hello there! :) Another NoVA furry? -TG

[chastmastr.livejournal.com]

Yep! :) Hmmm, meeting more and more people -- Xydexx pointed me to this entry... neat! New (well, relatively) to the area and getting out more!

[chastmastr.livejournal.com]

I used to know my very own Patrick. He used to be a nicer person. I gave up and let go about a year ago, maybe a little less. It still hurts -- I read his online ranting and always regret it (though it does remind me why I let go and that I made the right decision) -- but, well, it's my own temptation to Dwell On Negative Things, alas, and I must rage, rage against, etc.

No more Planet Misery for me! :)