In Which Everyone Escapes but the Bugbear

[the_gneech]

Last night's Silver Coast game entailed the final smashing of the Redcloaks. The session began with the characters trying to figure out what to do with The Spider's drow shapeshifter they'd captured. Having nearly killed her once at Cragmaw Castle, and now having seen through her trickery and blasted her with a witch bolt to get her attention, they found themselves stymied by the problem of what do when they had her captured and at their mercy, but unrepentant. In the words of the rogue, simply killing her on the spot would feel like murder, but keeping her prisoner is difficult at best, and letting her go would just leave her out there to cause problems later.

At the end they simply told her off and said "Next time we won't be so nice!" She sauntered off in an annoyingly smug fashion, and they returned to the business of clearing out the Redcloak hideout. It was probably a good thing that they returned when they did, because the one Redcloak down in the hideout who surrendered and was tied up would probably have started getting fidgety and calling for help if they had taken any longer. Not that it would have helped him that much, probably: when they returned, the PCs came down on the remaining Redcloaks and their recently-acquired bugbear shocktroops like the hammer of the gods. Most of the Redcloaks barely had time to pull their swords out before they were mowed down like so much wheat, with Gimlet's silence spell delaying the arrival of reinforcements long enough to wipe most of the bandits out. Even the mighty Klarg the Crusher didn't get a chance to refer to himself in the third person before he'd been toasted by a burning hands, slashed with Zweihänder, sneak-attacked, had an arrow sticking out of him, and was bonked with a dwarven warhammer. So, yeah, he died.

That left the thing in the pit, which for all its creepy telepathy, was clearly panicked. It offered up a treasure in return for its life, shoving a chest out into the visible part of the pit and cowering back in a corner. Since the pit was 20' deep, the only way to retrieve the chest was to send someone down there, so they lowered the rogue on a rope to grab it, being hoisted down by the barbarian, and questioned the thing while they did so.

When they asked the thing what it was, they got the quizzical answer of, "I don't know, nobody ever asked before. I learn secrets." When asked if it knew secrets about the drow shapeshifter, it informed them "The drow shapeshifter is not a drow." This led to much blinking of eyes. Morgo asked for a secret about Glass-Staff and apparently received a whopper, which he declined to share with the rest of the party.

The treasure the thing offered up, besides the usual coins and gems, turned out to be an ancient magical greatsword named "Talon," an heirloom of the now-gone Tresendar family (probably looted from the skeleton-filled crypt at some point in the past). This was given to Mei, the folk hero, as it was a connection to the great heroes of the North Kingdom. The party piled the rest of the loot into a wagon, including some of Glass-Staff's unsent correspondence, the Redcloak treasury and armory, as well as the prisoners and some townsfolk (the woodcarver's wife and children) who had been taken prisoner to be sold as slaves, and hauled it all back to town. They turned over the Redcloak armory and stores to Lord Sildar to help establish his garrison and/or return the easily-identifiable trade goods to their owners, but kept most of the actual coins for themselves. Mei, being the folk hero, returned her share to the townsfolk to help with reparations, gaining Inspiration for a future roll.

They took the rest of the day off, and well-earned it was, too. They debated what to do next. Brannar Diamondheart, eager to go find his brother, pushed for the exploration of Wave Echo Cave, backed up by the Tylow the rogue (who is ever-loyal to his dwarven friend). Gimlet the cleric, on the other hand, argued that the dragon in Pelann was more urgent, particularly with the information the party discovered in the Redcloak hideout of there being some kind of a cult in town trying to get ahold of slaves to feed to the thing. Mei, who has been wanting to deal with the dragon from the beginning, was also in favor of this plan. Morgo reminded the party that they had agreed to the whole "barter-with-the-ghost-oracle-in-Coneyburr" job from Sister Garaele, which was also in the direction of Pelann; Elsa the barbarian was happy to do whatever, as long as it meant more adventure and loot.

They finally came to the conclusion that their lack of information about Wave Echo Cave (and the potential immediate danger to Brannar's brother) was more urgent than the dragon sitting in Pelann, and decided to go at least take a look at Wave Echo Cave and figure out what was happening there, which caused Brannar to give a whoop and a holler and declare them all to be kin forever (although Gimlet literally already is). The mysterious cult will be hampered in its slave-collecting efforts at least temporarily by the fact that the Redcloaks are all dead or fled, and the potential threat of a goblin attack on the town revealed in Glass-Staff's correspondence will actually make it easier for Lord Sildar to get troops and material support for bolstering the town's defenses in the meantime.

So the group traveled to Wave Echo Cave, fighting off an attack by a hunting pack of wolves and wargs on the way as they tromped through the forest. Descending into the cave, they discovered a pair of quaggoths squatting in what had been the Diamondheart camp. Elsa identified the white-furred things as being "wendigo" and confidently said, "I'll handle this," hoisting Zweihänder and charging in. (Newsflash, Elsa: they weren't wendigo.) Fortunately for her, the rest of the party quickly followed suit. Thanks to the party rolling well, and the quaggoths rolling badly, the monsters were quickly defeated.

Investigating the campsite, there was no sign of Thobald Diamondheart, but no obvious signs of violence either, simply that the camp had been ransacked. There were signs of activity to the north, including another somewhat-lax quaggoth standing guard at an intersection who didn't seem to notice the PCs, so they instead took the passage to the east, which is where Brannar and Thobald had previously investigated. Thinking Thobald might have fled that way, the party poked around that way, finding the caved-in former entrance to Wave Echo Cave, filled with 500-years-dead dwarves and orcs and feeling for all the world like the entrance to Moria.

They went through the two rooms Brannar and Thobald had seen before, but found no sign of the missing dwarf. Tylow, convinced they were in a safe, "empty" part of the dungeon, wandered into the next room, only to find a squadron of ancient dwarvish soldier skeletons, their sense of duty stronger than death, standing guard against intruders (including those in the form of PCs). This led to a brief but intense fight, followed by a few harsh words about opening doors recklessly ("You always make me open the doors anyway!"), but the group decided that, having cleared out the skeletons, the former guard post made a nicely-defensible spot in which to make their own camp, and set up for a long rest before delving further in.

Alas, that was probably the last session we'll be able to do for a while: December is awash in holidays and conventions. I feel bad for Gimlet, who keeps getting voted down and who, upon hearing that there was a random encounter in the forest, enquired "What kills me from behind this time?" I was somewhat surprised he didn't turn the skeletons, although in 5E that has returned to the less-useful "make them scatter" than the holy-blasteyness of Pathfinder, at least until 5th level. Given how effectively I've seen sirfox play clerics in the past, I'm a bit baffled by Gimlet's relative lack of oomph. With characters spending hit dice to heal themselves during short rests, Gimlet's role of healer has been all but removed. Instead he's spent most of his time casting bless (which has been handy but not a game changer), guiding bolt (which is nice but not spectacular), and bonking things with his hammer. His main feature seems to be his unhittability, as the monsters swarm him and just bounce off his armor, putting him in the role of tank more than anything else. (Well, except for owlbears, anyway.) Pretty much anything that hits Gimlet, crits Gimlet, because it almost had to roll a 20 to connect anyway.

Tylow the rogue, on the other hand, is a sexy shoeless god of war, using Cunning Action to practically teleport across the room and sneak attacking ALL the things. Elsa the barbarian has been a virtual damage sponge, thanks to her raging damage resistance: the quaggoths for instance hit Elsa for 18 damage and she only took 9, making her also a very effective tank. Mei, although optimized for archery, has also become quite fond of wading in with her new shiny magic greatsword, making her a versatile, reliable damage dealer, leaving Morgo as the wildcard. He's an evoker, specializing in area effect blastery, but he's also the reluctant face of the party, having high scores in Int, Wis, and Cha and a tendency to be grandiose.

Overall it's a fun group, with possibly a few more wrinkles to iron out, but shaping up nicely. I was just relieved that they didn't level-up again at the end of the session: I was prepared to rule that they got "whatever XP they earned, or 1 point fewer than necessary to hit 4th level, whichever is lower," simply to slow things down. Fortunately, the XP they earned still puts them at least one and possibly two more sessions away from that. Also, the Dungeon Masters Guide finally hits the stores on Friday, and I will be snatching it up to check out alternative XP systems. I want to get away from "combat as the XP engine," and I hope there will be some good advice there. If not, I'll just have to bake my own, I guess!

Players, any thoughts on the XP progression issue?

-The Gneech

Comments

[jamesbarrett.livejournal.com]

so far, the xp progression has been just fine. Not to slow, not too fast. You can change how we get it all you want though. I don't need it from combat really when there are more fun ways to acquire it.

as for the Glass Staff secret Morgo learned, it was such a huge and stunning revelation that Morgo is still trying to figure out just what he should do about it. it won't hurt to think about it for a few days (Morgo's time) before bringing it up. in the scale of secrets that thing knew, this one was a doozy. You could say Morgo hasn't mentioned it yet because the shock hasn't worn off yet.

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Well, my own feeling is that finishing off the Redcloaks should have been what tripped you over from 2nd to 3rd, instead of putting you within striking distance of 4th; but since "zooming through 1-3" is working-as-intended for 5E, I figured I'd let that go as is for a "learn 5E" game.

I keep trying to remember what leveling was like in "the old days," 'cause I'm absolutely sure we must have done it at least once or twice. ;) I remember that each class had their own progression and so it was a lot more random– the thief levelled up one week, the fighter the next, but the paladin took forever, etc. My main memory is that even though we played a lot more, we levelled a lot less, sometimes to the point that we'd get sick of being 3rd level forever.

The CR of things you encounter is going to start evening off some now– most of the 5E monsters are in the CR 1-3 range– which will somewhat reduce the amount of per-encounter XP you receive and hopefully act as a braking factor. That room full of skeletons, for instance, was seven skellies worth 50 XP each, divided by the six characters present... so you each received only 58 XP for that room. The encounter could have chewed up and spit out the 1st-level version of you guys (that same 5 hp damage you keep taking was a bigger deal then), but it was mostly a "jump-cut scare" for the 3rd-level version.

Of course, there are much worse things than that in Wave Echo Cave, as well. ;)

-The Gneech

[sirfox.livejournal.com]

I haven't had much of an argument with the XP progression so far. I think it may feel like a lot else of what goes on gets rolled into the xp with or alongside combat, so it all feels like combat. However, finding/defeating a trap, tricking a guard, or setting up a table to fall on somebody all end up being calculated up with the combat engine calculator, but really happen outside of hackyslash time.

That said, while using cleverness ends up making the fights easier, we get the same xp for beheading 15 guards as we would for taking some prisoner, tricking others to fall into the pit of creepything*, and putting such a fear of Us into the remaining survivors that they don't stop running until they find a monastary and take some vows... that all just counts as 'defeated'. firstly, I wouldn't say no to either bonus xp or in-came material rewards. (like Lord Sildar later giving the party some silver for capturing criminals and sending them off for the justice system, and the reward later coming back with their paperwork from the City) Secondly, and maybe more importantly, creative enemy defeating is just a lot of Enjoyable Fun for me as a player, and i think for others as well. Watching that have rewards over and above just "we wade in and start lopping off heads/ankles depending on player height" would be cool.

Those times where a player or the party together stops the GM cold, leaving them saying 'holy crap, never thought of them doing it that way...' I think that there's opportunity for xp rewards for creativity.

*didn't happen but was on my list of 'we could...'

[sirfox.livejournal.com]

I think that of the base classes, clerics really get spun the hell around a lot with how their mechanics work and how they're effective. 3.5e how-the-fuck-do-i-calculate-this-again Turning becomes pathfinder's Channeling divinity which just damages undead and/or heals friendlies with one roll that tells everybody how many HP they get or lose. Making the undead flee or effecting other targets were all special options you take as feats, to whatever the hell 4e did, now in 5e, your channel divinity is back to making undead flee or just autodie if they're low CR and the cleric is high level, and any other effect is 100% reliant on your domain, only life seems to heal with it. others do blasts of radiant damage, or charm animals, or get max damage on specific spell effects. Of things i don't care for, good god the life domain healing channel is nerfed to hell. used to get a d6 per level or two that would apply to everybody. now you have your level x5 hp to distribute in total, and only up to half a character's health. Granted, you can do this after every short rest, and I can probably make better use of that mechanic, but if folks are just beaten up after a fight but not close to dying, it won't really do *anything*, where before it was a really nice "let me top you off..."

I'm still enjoying playing Gimlet, the class just *really* feels different in this edition. Standard support buffs since forever are totally changed now. Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom, for instance, (Now all under Enhance Ability and you pick which one when you cast it, a good idea) always used to give +Whatever** to that stat, so you could get a lot higher hit roll or damage or be incredibly stealthy if you dropped it in the right slot for a given character. Now instead, they all*** give advantage on an ability check roll. Bull's Strength now just gives the same effect as somebody else *helping* you break down a door, but never makes you *stronger* than you were before. Good if you're alone, but that's about it. I can kinda see why in their goal to reduce the math and have combat go quicker, however, the result they achieved is: "That spell i *ALWAYS* had ready because it was a game changer to cast on the tank/rogue? It's *NEVER* going to be on my 'prepared spells' list again because even the most incompetent npc assisting a player has the same effect, and I can put something more useful in that slot, like holy nosepicking." People would have screamed if they left it out, but... they may as well have.

By comparison, I kinda *like* the bless being a variable amount, even if it hits fewer players, because what was a flat +1 to hit is now a d4 on the table, and can really swing a bad roll on the d20 back into the 'maybe i hit?' range. or not. but it's never less than its old +1, so there's not that feeling of something kinda being taken away like with the Enhance Ability spell.


** Plus 1d4, plus 2, plus 4... again, depending on edition.
*** The con bonus does give a few extra HP, the only stat that's different

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Looking at the life domain, it seems to be built pretty much to heal and do little else. Your domain powers are "heal MOAR and wear heavy armor." But since at this level you can only channel divinity once per rest, you have the choice of "heal once or turn undead once." But given the reduced role of healing, given everyone's ability to spend hit dice during short rests, that's of limited utility. If you wanted to "retrain" Gimlet with the war domain (given his soldier background), I'd be fine with that.

-The Gneech

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

In theory at least, the reward for trickery and "defeating" your foes in noncombat ways, is that you don't have as much risk of your own heads getting lopped off because the combat is over faster. ;D I'm open to suggestions as to what additional rewards might be. I considered ditching combat-based XP all together and switching to quest-based, e.g., "Rescue Brannar From Goblins: 200 XP," "Clear Out Redcloak Hideout: 1200 XP," etc., but with this campaign I particularly wanted you guys to control your own fate, rather than me setting what the goals were.

Lord Sildar didn't bother to award you with silver because you pretty much told him flat out, "We're keeping the Redcloaks' treasury." His choices were to either ping you for looting, or call that your fee and be done with it, and as he is currently facing the classic "Lord with no army but the mercenaries" problem, and as you did bring back the trade goods and the weapons and armor, he decided not to rock the boat. ;)

He is reporting upwards on the chain of command, however, so you can be sure that Princess Not-Yet-Appearing-In-This-Campaign will know of you when she finally comes to Welltide, and being a friend of Sildar's is very likely to have in-game benefits for you when that times. (Dame Mei of Pellan, anyone? Bishop GImlet? There's a whole region looking to be settled.)

-The Gneech

[sirfox.livejournal.com]

Nifty. I wasn't expecting a little bag of gold to show up each time we shoved a prisoner into the shed we're keeping them before shipping them out, but something up the line is brewing and that's cool. :}

While it's probably inconvenienced the party thoroughly, Gimlet seems to make a point of offering a chance to surrender to his foes whenever he can. Character-wise, i think it's from his days as a mercenary.