Genre: The Two-Edged Sword
Apr. 7th, 2005 10:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
the_gneechRelated to my post about sales yesterday, I've been thinking lately about the problems of genre, and particularly of the furry genre, since that's where Suburban Jungle is.
See, I love the furry genre and always have, even before I knew there was such a thing. Starting at an extremely early age with Kimba, the White Lion, I've had a particular affinity for lions in art and literature, and with funny animal/anthropomorphic stuff in general by extension. That guy in the gaming group who always wants to play the cat-person, no matter if it's a fantasy, SF, or pulp game? That's me. Thus, SJ was a natural fit for me when it came to doing a comic.
And the furry fandom is a wonderful fandom! It's funny, given the way "bait the furries" is such a popular sport in some circles, but compared to a lot of the other fandoms I've poked around in, furries as a group are happy, well-adjusted, and wonderfully friendly people. They're also extremely loyal and generous to artists, which is nothing but good for me! ^.^
The downside, alas, is that furry is a very small fandom by comparison, with all of the economic ramifications that includes. Those numbers I posted yesterday about daily readers? Guess what: that's roughly ten percent of the readership of something like PvP.
Let me just boggle at that a moment. *boggle!boggle!boggle!* Okay, I'm back.
Now let's get something clear: I'm not doing SJ for the money, I'm doing it because I love it. In many ways, I'm doing it because I can't not do it without going crazy. But still, the realization that for every one person who reads SJ, ten people are reading PvP (a comic I can't bring myself to be interested in, tho it seems a perfectly good comic), is a sobering one. What could I do with ten times the banner income? What could I do with ten times the book sales? Ten times the merchandise? Ten times the licensing opportunities? I could almost -- dare I think it -- make a living at something I love to do. 0.o
The problem of genre is that most people like one or two and don't care for the rest ... people who like giant robots may not object (and may even think it's cool) if there are furries in their giant robot comics, but they won't read a furry comic that doesn't have giant robots in it. Similarly, a lot of furries don't care for anything non-furry, no matter what it is.
Thus, it seems to me that the only way to grow the SJ fandom is transcend the furry aspect ... i.e., think of it (and market it to the "mainstream") as a romantic comedy that just happens to have lions and tigers in it. That also means that I need to start broadening my horizons, in terms of cons I attend, contacts I make, and so on. I'm going to need to start going to manga/anime cons, Comic-Con, and the like, and finding ways to appeal to that larger crowd without abandoning my current fans.
I'm also going to need to invest in a few extra layers of skin; the mainstream comic audience occasionally has a viciousness problem. -.-
-The Gneech
See, I love the furry genre and always have, even before I knew there was such a thing. Starting at an extremely early age with Kimba, the White Lion, I've had a particular affinity for lions in art and literature, and with funny animal/anthropomorphic stuff in general by extension. That guy in the gaming group who always wants to play the cat-person, no matter if it's a fantasy, SF, or pulp game? That's me. Thus, SJ was a natural fit for me when it came to doing a comic.
And the furry fandom is a wonderful fandom! It's funny, given the way "bait the furries" is such a popular sport in some circles, but compared to a lot of the other fandoms I've poked around in, furries as a group are happy, well-adjusted, and wonderfully friendly people. They're also extremely loyal and generous to artists, which is nothing but good for me! ^.^
The downside, alas, is that furry is a very small fandom by comparison, with all of the economic ramifications that includes. Those numbers I posted yesterday about daily readers? Guess what: that's roughly ten percent of the readership of something like PvP.
Let me just boggle at that a moment. *boggle!boggle!boggle!* Okay, I'm back.
Now let's get something clear: I'm not doing SJ for the money, I'm doing it because I love it. In many ways, I'm doing it because I can't not do it without going crazy. But still, the realization that for every one person who reads SJ, ten people are reading PvP (a comic I can't bring myself to be interested in, tho it seems a perfectly good comic), is a sobering one. What could I do with ten times the banner income? What could I do with ten times the book sales? Ten times the merchandise? Ten times the licensing opportunities? I could almost -- dare I think it -- make a living at something I love to do. 0.o
The problem of genre is that most people like one or two and don't care for the rest ... people who like giant robots may not object (and may even think it's cool) if there are furries in their giant robot comics, but they won't read a furry comic that doesn't have giant robots in it. Similarly, a lot of furries don't care for anything non-furry, no matter what it is.
Thus, it seems to me that the only way to grow the SJ fandom is transcend the furry aspect ... i.e., think of it (and market it to the "mainstream") as a romantic comedy that just happens to have lions and tigers in it. That also means that I need to start broadening my horizons, in terms of cons I attend, contacts I make, and so on. I'm going to need to start going to manga/anime cons, Comic-Con, and the like, and finding ways to appeal to that larger crowd without abandoning my current fans.
I'm also going to need to invest in a few extra layers of skin; the mainstream comic audience occasionally has a viciousness problem. -.-
-The Gneech
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Date: 2005-04-07 02:32 pm (UTC)*patpats* Poor Gneech. Well, to my defense, I at least read so many comics, that I can at least say I read a bit of everything. Except the really depressing stuff. I don't like sad comics.
But, good luck with trying to get SJ bigger. I'm sort of reminded of what Bill Hollbrook of K&K said about syndicating comics at AC, and could see the uphill battle you're looking at (and thats without trying to Syndicate SJ, just get more folks).
Uh, I don't know what else to say so I'll be quiet now. -.-;
On PvP...
Date: 2005-04-07 03:16 pm (UTC)That 1/10th of the PvP viewership looking at your webpage also happens to be the cream of the viewing crop, so don't feel too bad about it.
Re: On PvP...
Date: 2005-04-07 03:20 pm (UTC)Seriously, I don't feel bad about anything -- I have awesome readers, and I wouldn't trade them for anybody. :)
But to grow as an artist and to grow SJ as a title, I also need to look at branching out, that's all I'm getting at. :)
-The Gneech
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Date: 2005-04-07 03:54 pm (UTC)Just be careful not to "destroy SJ to save it" and you'll be fine. Remember that your primary objective is not to gain new SJ viewers. That's the secondary objective, and a fine one. The primary objective to keep the SJ viewers you have and not turn them into your worst negative advertisers.
Re: On PvP...
Date: 2005-04-07 06:35 pm (UTC)But I'm really proud to be an SJ reader. :3
And they're right, your readers tend to be the better ones. I agree with much of what you said about the fandom. ^^
And remember,
Date: 2005-04-07 03:33 pm (UTC)We're more like a wonderful coffeeshop in a remote part of town that people keep stumbling upon.
Even if it takes a decade or two, I'm confident we'll rival other genres in size, in time.
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Date: 2005-04-07 03:37 pm (UTC)It seems to me that NeverNever would make a better mainstream comic than SJ. No offense to SJ, but some folks in the "mainstream" are going to look at it and go, "Funny animals...big deal." NeverNever has already got elements in it which will lead to a broader appeal.
SJ is good as it is, IMO. To broaden SJ's audience among the furfen, I'd try to liven up the storylines a bit...more drama/action. Let Leonard catch a secret predator in the bar. (We've never seen that, IIRC.) Tiffany needs some more setbacks in her professional life. (Admittedly, she's never more beautiful than when she's pissed off!) The KK storyline is a good one so far, but perhaps a stalker on the set? (I can see Leona now..."Hey, Where's my stalker?! Get Athena on the phone!") Also, involve more of the cast in some of the situations, it has been a long time since some of them got 'face' time.
I would like to see SJ broaden it's appeal, but I can see a few problems. The 'funny animals' aspect. The fact that the strip is thrice-weekly (not counting the grabbags, of course.) The fact that you have a life... ;*)> From what I've read of various blogs, etc by comic artists and writers, they all say same tyhing at some point: "I either need to dedicate myself to this full-time, or I need to lower my expectations." In your case, ISTM that you'd prefer the former, but are verging on the latter. Ummm, I hesitate to suggest this, given that you've worked very hard to make SJ a family comic...Add a bit more skin? Sex does sell, after all. I am NOT suggesting that you draw Leonard, Tiffany, Athena, Comfort, Dover and the mice in an all-out spoogefest! However, there are several couples in the strip now, and several singles looking. Surely there are dramatic/humerous scenarios that suggest themselves?
I am of the opinion (I've said this before, in the previous LJ entry on 'Best Webcomic Artists',) that I think you are a good artist. We've seen you grow and evolve, and I agree that you're ready to take the next step, to go after a wider audience. Having been part of your audience for a while, I appreciate the efforts you've made. If I think of anything else to help, I'll email you directly, or respond here. Break a pen! (Is that the artist's version of break a leg?)
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Date: 2005-04-07 06:10 pm (UTC)I am certainly trying to add more action, or at least make the talky-talky parts more dynamic. ;) As for skin (or fur, as the case may be), it's interesting you should say that, 'cause I often wonder if I'm being too fanservicey as it is. I guess the answer is "no!" ;)
Actually, the reason I didn't show more skin at the beginning was because my art wasn't good enough to warrant it. Now that I've improved, I have been slowly letting more in when it's appropriate.
-TG
It would dramatically change SJ, but...
Date: 2005-04-07 09:38 pm (UTC)Have the best
-=TK
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Date: 2005-04-07 03:39 pm (UTC)Add a troll - PVP
Amorphious blob of whatever - Schlock Mercenary
Cutting edge angst - Sinfest
Insane quality graphics - K&K (Yeah.. you're working on this one..)
An iGirl - Applegeeks
Anime references - MegaTokyo
A nieve "girl next door" character people will go ga-ga over - Sabrina Online
etc....
Then again, you could just have fun doing what you like and not sweat the pressure. ^_-
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Date: 2005-04-07 03:58 pm (UTC)The last is certainly the best. Gneech is Gneech. Gneech isn't Howard Tayler, Howard Tayler is. Gneech isn't Bill Holbrook, Bill Holbrook is. And so on. Also, none of them are Gneech, either.
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Date: 2005-04-07 07:15 pm (UTC)I do have fun doing what I like -- but I also like getting new readers and a broader fanbase! ;)
-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 12:34 am (UTC)Why did you stop using Wally in the strip? He became too popular. He became a bigger mega-star with the readers than Tiff. You wanted to shift attention back to Tiff and the rest of the plot.
You want to pander to the readers? Bring Wally back. Ask the fans what else they may want. Pander.
Of course, once you're done pandering, I don't know how much you'll like the comic.
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Date: 2005-04-07 03:40 pm (UTC)The only way I could see you having your cake and eating it too would be to have multiple series going on, a furry series, and a human one. While places like ComicCon do have furry comics, they're usually lumped in a corner and are usually places I avoid like the plague. There's DEFINITELY a stigma....ta.
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Date: 2005-04-07 06:06 pm (UTC)-TG
"Easily stigmatized"
Date: 2005-04-07 09:41 pm (UTC)Have the best
-=TK
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Date: 2005-04-07 05:31 pm (UTC)I already think of it like that. While I am a "furry fan", I don't read SJ "because it's furry"; I read it because it's a good comic with characters I care about. Unlike some "romantic comedy" webcomics I can think of (*ahem*), SJ has stayed true to itself.
I think the strip has gotten stronger since some of the K&K-style "predation" jokes have slipped into the background. SJ is about PEOPLE first, and furries second.
However, you also managed to avoid the trap of being "just people in fursuits", which is something that crops up all too often in furrydom. The animal heritage of the SJ cast crops up in different ways all through the strip, ranging from Dover's hyperactivity through Tiffany's concerns about a tiger's doomed love life.
Annnnd... I can no longer bring this to a unified conclusion. Blather blather!
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Date: 2005-04-07 06:05 pm (UTC)You speak my native tongue!
-TG
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Date: 2005-04-07 06:05 pm (UTC)Even though Scott is one of the view comic artists whose job is just to make comics, doesn't mean he has a hard time with his fandom. He has been given offers to make PVP into a cartoon series from LOTS of companies. Universal was his more recent offer. He keeps denying them because they want all the rights of the PVP franchise. And Scott won't let them. So even though he could easily say "Heck ya! More money!" He doesn't, he recently said that he does PVP for the fun of it and to meet people that love it.
So you got to be careful of what you want to do to get SJ out more.
So don't jump the shark, k? ;)
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Date: 2005-04-07 07:13 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-07 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-07 06:18 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-07 09:44 pm (UTC)Have the best
-=TK
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Date: 2005-04-07 09:57 pm (UTC)The ones I know of in that category are PvP, Megatokyo, User Friendly, Sluggy Freelance, Penny Arcade, Schlock Mercenary and Something Positive. Presumably there are others that I don't know of. I understand Penny Arcade has an intermittent schedule but I don't read it myself. I think Megatokyo averages about 2.75 strips a week. The rest run 6-7 days per week. (Although Pete Abrams has a rather spotty update record, himself.)
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Date: 2005-04-07 10:38 pm (UTC)Have the best
-=TK
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Date: 2005-04-08 12:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-07 08:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-07 08:12 pm (UTC)I wouldn't say so; CD certainly knows its audience and gives them exactly what they want! Plus, it has art by
Really, there's a lot to admire about CD, and I'm watching its progress very carefully.
-TG
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Date: 2005-04-07 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-07 08:21 pm (UTC)-The Gneech
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Date: 2005-04-07 08:23 pm (UTC)As soon as I figure out how I get them to draw for me, I'll let you know. I'm still amazed at who's doing my spinoff comic The Guardians.
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Date: 2005-04-07 09:33 pm (UTC)But, I couldn't write PVP.
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Date: 2005-04-08 01:38 pm (UTC)-TG
Sorry
Date: 2005-04-08 03:14 pm (UTC)The question is one I've pondered myself rather a bit.
A lot of it comes down to a question of "What do I enjoy writing?" and working on comics every day means you really have to write what you enjoy. Otherwise it becomes Work and No Fun.
Re: Sorry
Date: 2005-04-08 03:18 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-07 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-08 01:39 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 01:47 pm (UTC)http://www.suburbanjungle.com/about.html
...although it could use an update (it doesn't have Athena, for instance). Perhaps a "The Story So Far..." page would also be in order? In the past, people have generally just gone through the archives, but as you say the strip has been going for quite a while now, so that's a lot of stuff to read!
I do try to keep current storylines at least comprehensible without needing to reference the past too much, just 'cause I know from my own experience as a reader that needing trivia knowledge to follow a story can be frustrating.
-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 12:29 am (UTC)But aside from that, about furry: Due to some bad decisions early on, the fur fandom got a very bad rep. Folks can point fingers at who decided to advertise their con in fetish magazines and suhc, but as it stands that's ancient history.
Sheesh, getting the big portion of a decade ago myself and a few other friends started helping out a furry convention on the east coast with the laughable idea of trying to do something other than a friends party or a con focusing solely on the sex aspects. We call it "Anthrocon" today.
I've been running a furry website, and hosting for a long time. I've got nearly 3,000 users on that machine, and it's mostly just a side genre within furry.
I remember back when we were afraid of asking folks like Bill Holbrook to show up at a con. We've gotten so much better now. And we're worrying about folks like Peter Laird.
Yes, the Furry genre is a small fandom and they're getting a bad rep. But with things like FC and Anthrocon and, most importantly, content like SJ, things have gotten a lot better. And I bet they will continue to get better too.
By all means, expand and work on your work as you see fit. Rotate characters and merchandise. But remember, you're a big fish in a niche market that is growing. And that's something worth hanging on to.
And thanks, too. You rock.
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Date: 2005-04-08 12:33 am (UTC)Especially on that last part @:)
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Date: 2005-04-08 02:33 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 02:33 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 12:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-08 02:37 pm (UTC)-TG
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Date: 2005-04-08 03:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-08 02:36 pm (UTC)Not that there haven't been mistakes, but even in those cases they've tended to be reparable ones.
-TG
YOU WANNABE FATCAT CORPORATE SELLOUT
Date: 2005-04-08 02:02 pm (UTC)Re: YOU WANNABE FATCAT CORPORATE SELLOUT
Date: 2005-04-08 02:31 pm (UTC)-TG